Henry wrote:Well Maverick I reckon THIS forum is not for the faint hearted! Your tire kickers , word lookers and all their kind (which I notice don't post here either) shouldn't be here either. So that gets down to you and me.
I remember a saying that could fit this situation that goes something like this: "I find all the world is weird, except thee and thine. Although, I must say, I have my doubts at odd times about you". Or something like that?
So if we are not able to defend ourselves the only thing we can say is mmmmmmmmmmmmm! Well Henry, your post here made me have a chuckle to myself. Actually , it made me have a bit of an appreciative laugh.
But still, it was off topic, so please, post worthwhile comments like this, in say, the General Discussion are of these forums'
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Maverick Model Yachting - The Only Way To Go! Secret Alias - Don Leitis
Well Maverick I reckon THIS forum is not for the faint hearted! Your tire kickers , word lookers and all their kind (which I notice don't post here either) shouldn't be here either. So that gets down to you and me.
I remember a saying that could fit this situation that goes something like this: "I find all the world is weird, except thee and thine. Although, I must say, I have my doubts at odd times about you". Or something like that?
So if we are not able to defend ourselves the only thing we can say is mmmmmmmmmmmmm!
Well Maverick , I thought I was giving a lively defence. I can't think of the "Loose Legal defence" for that at the minute. But it will come to me. We didn't even get to the part of the hung jury bit. And I was waiting for the court Kangaroo hopping down the paddock with the wild horse bit. That would have HUNG the jury, if nothing else ?
It will be interesting to see how you break all these up ?
Well Henry, What can I say. You joined these forums' of your own free will. Your first two posts were inflammatory but nevertheless I was delighted to be able to respond to even those parts of the posts that were irrelevant to the topic under discussion. They bordered on being deleted under the conditions of access to these forums, in that personal attack posts will be deleted, and indeed any future posts similar in nature to these will be immediately removed. Your posts also included comments that were in part, or in whole, absolutely unrelated to the topic being discussed, and seems to me rightly or wrongly, were made to create mischief.
However, despite this inauspicious start, your posts were nevertheless answered. You obviously didn't like the answers, or get the answers you wanted, so now you are gone. Perhaps that is for the best. I thank you for the consideration you have shown by leaving voluntarily.
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Maverick Model Yachting - The Only Way To Go! Secret Alias - Don Leitis
Your theory went down the drain again , its about not getting your facts right, DON.
I have absolutely no idea of what you mean by this.
Communication to me means contact with at least one other person irrespective of what form that takes, be it email, face-to-face, telephone, fax, or whatever.
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Maverick Model Yachting - The Only Way To Go! Secret Alias - Don Leitis
Henry wrote: But little boys who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
Now I have seen the pages on your site contain (with your approval ) stuff that was "pinched " off copy write. And I think you don't mind doing that, when it suits you. And some of your utterings are about the shamefull(unproved) pinching of someones copywrite.
Henry, as I understand it the common application and understanding these days of the use of copyrighted works is as follows. Copyright is understood to be acknowledged and no infringement of copyright occurs if any or all of the following conditions have been met. 1. Permission is given by the copyright holder(s) to use the works. 2. Copyright is deemed to be upheld by quoting reference to the owner of the copyright. 3. The copyright owner's interests and/or ownership are recognised from any use of the works.
I stand to be corrected on any or all of the above points, but where I have used anybody else's works on my website, at a very minimum, recognition of the owner of the works has always been given. I have also, always wherever possible obtained permission to use those works. And I have never, ever, claimed anybody else's works as my own.
Henry wrote: Again you go off and say that somebody is at fault because some one told you one side of the story. "Truth" didn't enter the fray at all!
I saw that so-called letter from JW and concluded it was his "rememberings". But I remember things differently. To illustrate that point , let me use as an example where it was mooted that JW was going to start a class for A11. Here it is 2 years later and nothing has happened, not one scerrick of a zilch has happened. You see Don , that it is alright saying something but when it comes time to back it up with some sort of proof, you don't ask for proof. why is that Don?
Your reference to the "Truth" I presume refers to your verision of the story which just so happens to be the correct one.
The "so-called" letter was real.
Later intentions are irrelevant to the original issue.
"Back it up with some sort of proof". Many different people have asked questions of the people behind the Nautic12 on many different, and international, forums', and on many many occassions, that had never been satisfactorily answered, if at all. For three, maybe even four years, specific questions, often repeated may times were never answered relevantly. That's why when as you put it, JW's "so-called" letter was published people accepted it. It was a piece of the puzzle that had previously been hidden. Now the pieces, from different sources fitted together.
Henry wrote: I first found out about JW wanting to sell his A11 moulds was when he phoned me and asked if "my NZ mates" were interested . I purposely phoned him back the next day to see if he was of the same mind. For JW had a perchant for changing his mind on such things , that I had experienced in other transactions that I had dealing with him. I also wanted to discuss my commission for getting a buyer. Well I found the buyer, I never got my commission (10%) and he had changed his mind again.
Absolutely irrelevant to the original issue and bordering on deletion as a personal attack.
Henry wrote:
You go out of your way to misinterpret what people say to you.
Your opinion. I work on what is presented to the public in the public arena. My comments are directly related to the written words as I understand them.
And I always stand to be corrected by logical and reasonable argument. That is is part my understanding of what discussion forums' are all about. As a general comment, I have only the most absolute contempt for posts where bullies try to make their points by personally attacking the poster who dares to make comments with which they disagree. These attacks are always accompanied by a lack of rational substance.
As far as I am concerned the Nautic12 have had their day in court. They have had 4 years to state their case, and they stuffed it up.
I personally do not intend to discuss the why's and wherefore's any further as all that seems to be happening is going over the same old ground again.
My only concern now is to do whatever I can, to get the owners of Nautic12's, A2's and EC12's happily sailing together in a friendly atmosphere.
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Maverick Model Yachting - The Only Way To Go! Secret Alias - Don Leitis
What you could be doing Don is doing something on your web page that is helpfull. There is this beaut little boat by Victor of a Aussie 11. I believe you have built one?
The balance of this post has been moved to the General Discussion forum as it was off topic here
Now Don , to emphazise a point here on you misinterpreting stuff. In my dealings with the people from A11 it has ALWAYS been Face to face communication , The good old standby, for one to one conversation. I asked if he wanted to discuss it , he said No. Twice I've asked him twice he has said No. It was done in front of witnesses. End of story.
Your theory went down the drain again , its about not getting your facts right, DON.
Well Don, like all good stories you must get both sides of it. You conclude on your WAR STORIES on Nautic 12 that we are at fault. But little boys who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
Now I have seen the pages on your site contain (with your approval ) stuff that was "pinched " off copy write. And I think you don't mind doing that, when it suits you. And some of your utterings are about the shamefull(unproved) pinching of someones copywrite.
Again you go off and say that somebody is at fault because some one told you one side of the story. "Truth" didn't enter the fray at all!
I saw that so-called letter from JW and concluded it was his "rememberings". But I remember things differently. To illustrate that point , let me use as an example where it was mooted that JW was going to start a class for A11. Here it is 2 years later and nothing has happened, not one scerrick of a zilch has happened. You see Don , that it is alright saying something but when it comes time to back it up with some sort of proof, you don't ask for proof. why is that Don?
And to another saying of JWs that I sold him a A11 model. I have sold in my life two models, 1 marblehead to the USA and 1 tenrater. Ifound both sales horrendous and I don't want to repeat it , because I didn't like parting with them.
I first found out about JW wanting to sell his A11 moulds was when he phoned me and asked if "my NZ mates" were interested . I purposely phoned him back the next day to see if he was of the same mind. For JW had a perchant for changing his mind on such things , that I had experienced in other transactions that I had dealing with him. I also wanted to discuss my commission for getting a buyer. Well I found the buyer, I never got my commission (10%) and he had changed his mind again.
Before this took place he had loaned his A11 moulds to the party in Newcastle but experienced difficulty finding him at times.
Of course there is more to this but as I said you should get ALL the facts before you start aportioning blame.
The other thing is this thing about the way you are treated! You bring alot of this on yourself. You go out of your way to misinterpret what people say to you.
Below is a verbatim copy of a post I have recently made on the Eureka - Nautic 12 forum.
Hey Steve,
Don't turn out the light just yet OK.
If you don't get satisfaction, in that your communications are not answered, that is, in my opinion unreasonable.
I personally wish to see a reconciliation, that your own group seems to have started, even if on an informal basis.
If you can provide evidence of your communications with the A2 people, that have not been answered, I am prepared to modify my stance on the basis that you have done all that you can in order to reach some sort of agreement. This need not necessarily be done publicly, but public disclosure is in my opinion, the way to go.
I have in my possession another communication that describes a series of events that whilst technically legally inappropriate actions may have occurred, and whilst not strictly legitimate, the intention was to promote the sport. And this was all with good intentions concerning the persons involved.
Bottom Line: Steve, I have asked the A2 folks if they have ever had communication from you. They say they have not. Perhaps the problems that have occurred have just been a result of communications gone astray for whatever reason.
Might I respectfully suggest to all that communications try to be restablished. If I can help in any way, please let me know.
My own personal opinion right now?
If the A2 people are not prepared to enter into discussion about rights of ownership, royalties, or whatever else is required, then it seems to me that reconciliation will never be achieved. If this is the case, then my attitude must be that I will do whatever I can to promote this sport, and if promoting the Nautic12 is a part of that, then so be it.
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Maverick Model Yachting - The Only Way To Go! Secret Alias - Don Leitis
