Well here we are a few days later after saying it like it is & finally we have a response.
Once again a predictable one thta does not have much substance. A response nevertheless.
I have responded to Mr Dobbie & included Mr Bell. I shall wait a few days giving them the courtesy & sufficient time to reply prior to going public.
I suspect that the response from Mr Dobbie is purely a cut & paste job & it is likely to be sent to anybody showing an interest. Well anybody that does not Meet HIS standards anyway.
It is interesting to note that Mr Dobbie sends things to State Secretary in WA but not all other States.. My email did not include Mr Bennett..
Curious Indeed.. Perhaps WA now has a Hidden Member on the ARYA Executive.. WA no Less.. Who says WA isn't the centre of the Sailing Universe..
From: Ken Dobbie <kendobbie@netspace.net.au> To: PFP <waboats@yahoo.com.au> Cc:Ross Bennett <rsawa.secretary@amnet.net.au>; Hub Bell <maxhub@live.com.au>; casden1@bigpond.com; halesinst@hotmail.com; rcyachtie@hotmail.com; arya.publicity@moby58.com; Michael Bell <michael.bell@boral.com.au>; Trevor Jeffree <tgjeff@adam.com.au> Sent: Monday, 1 August 2011, 9:59 Subject: RE: ARYA Moderator Vacancy
I have been overseas on holiday and on my return have asked the Publicity Officer to look at the forum issue and prepare a proposal for consideration by the Executive.
If the decision is taken to reinstate the forum an opportunity would no doubt exist for interested parties to seek the Moderator's role.
Regards
Ken Dobbie
National Secretary ARYA (Inc)
-- Edited by waboats on Monday 1st of August 2011 08:32:16 PM
I have expectations that have been met by the actions of predictable people.
I set in place a process that followed the accepted protocols & inevitably I achieved what was always the only outcome.
The expectation was that the powers that be have no interest in anything they cannot control... I am unashamedly one person that they cannot control, does not fear their antics nor will bend to their pressures..
For my part I expect that Mr Bell & his cronies (having joined my club) will now endeavour to have me removed as a member. They misjudged the rights of people at the last AGM & ran a mile.. Only to regroup for another attack. This time I go on the front foot...
Our current Club Delegate is no longer a member of the club yet continues to represent. Go figure... I volunteered there as well.. Not taken up.. Go Figure... I think they fear my steadfast resolve in not bowing to the oppression & upholding what is right & just. And asking appropriate questions is a Big No No... In essence making them accountable..
Their actions in trying to character assasinate me & hopefully silence me have come to naught & unfortunately it will not do so anyway., regardless of the weak minded people that are empowered by the actions of some, I will continue to express my views.. (Even if they sometimes are wrong... :^) ).
The main reason I sent the expression of interest was to remove a clear blocker that Mr Dobbie keeps running up the Flag Pole. He & they can't say they didn't get a volunteer from outside the ARYA Executive. I seriously didn't expect a reply.
Gentlemen, surely by now you must recognize the fact that the ARYA would NEVER appoint anyone that is not party to their closed minds, and closed circle of ...errrrr elderly gentlemen whose minds are mostly still in the 20's, that is, the ...1820's!!
And I have formed the opinion, over many years, that the ARYA, is resistant to every new idea, or even worse, averse to independent opinions.
Sorry John, but I fear that you may have to give up any dreams you may have had about possibly helping develop this sport, especially using the resources of the ARYA...
So sad my friend!!!
-- Edited by Maverick on Thursday 28th of July 2011 11:41:16 PM
__________________
Maverick Model Yachting - The Only Way To Go! Secret Alias - Don Leitis
I haven't even received the Basic Decency & Courtesy of an Acknowledgement, to say they have even received the communication.
Not surprised really.. It says everything about why the Forum was closed & why it will remain so, or until the main culprits move on. I think they wil wait for that Death Notice I mentioned...
Personally I think that no one person should be able to hold Executive Office for more than 2 years continuous period with a minimum of 1 year absence before can re-nominate for positions.
Tends to bring in New Blood, Fresh Ideas...
John
-- Edited by waboats on Thursday 28th of July 2011 07:17:44 PM
-- Edited by waboats on Thursday 28th of July 2011 07:18:20 PM
As the only members of ARYA are the State Councils then Membership to the Forum would mean only the States Reps could have access to that area. Interesting that teh State Reps of ARYA. Pity such suggestions come from ARYA Exec officers taht don't seem to understand their own constitution.. Says lots for why we are in the situation we are.
To selectively decide outside of this as to who & who can't have access would be an act of dicrimination..
So if they want to think along these lines tehn they have to make Individuals Members of the ARYA, which ultimately gives Grass Roots Sailors an avenue for appeal.
I doubt they would want to risk Individual Membership. They could not deny answers to valid questions, otherwise they fall foul of consumer protection laws..
John
-- Edited by waboats on Sunday 24th of July 2011 09:36:04 PM
Are you trying to wind me up or what.. Just Kidding..
I don't disagree with what you are saying, BUT,, Yes always a BUT...
Firstly there has to be an acceptance that answers will be forthcoming. Not like we have now.. Send an Email to the ARYA Secretary or via the State Body then wait.
Yeas indeed you will wait.. Probably until the day after the Death Notice is in the papers..
Members getting a fair go & being heard .. Utopia... Not in yours or my lifetime.. How's the back.. Full of holes from the Stab Wounds I bet..
Regardless of who posts the message is getting out there. People are Talking... Which good or bad is the way things need to happen. Change will happen only when the majority overturn the poor standards of censorship that exist within the sport & hobby.
Silence is as much a censorship as Deleting & Editing Posts.
The Integrity of Individulas that do these things can only be questioned.. Not Accused Just Questioned... Some don't, won't or more likely can't see the difference...
No need to feel guilty where there is no guilt present. So what would there be to hide..
Insurance well that just shows the greter membership isn't aware they weren't covered from 4pm on 30 June 2011. Every activity regradlless of how small brings with it risks.. Best to stay away IMHO until the Insurance issue is clear & absolute..
Interesting MR Dobbie really didn't explain in any detail what the Insurance is all about.. Wouldn't take much to provide a link on the ARYA Website & expalin the coverage in detail. The membership could act in an appropriate manner & according to the assurances & guidance from the ARYA organisation.
They BS then the member has recourse by acting with due diligence based on the information supplied by the ARYA.. The ARYA would then be responsible to ensure proper compliance.
But as we know that was the Ultimate Censorship by the ARYA as they closed down the debate & all the information gathered by members by the simple Closure of the Forum.
Quite easy to leave the Forum open as "Read Only"
Couldn't risk it so they deleted every post.. Closed the Forum what else could they do..
Down to the standard method of communication from the ARYA, so I would say that with this current small select control group in power there is no way on this earth that they want members to have any input. Unless you are a mate & a puppet to their opinions then you just ain't welcome.
John
-- Edited by waboats on Friday 22nd of July 2011 01:27:20 PM
This I'm affraid it would be a disaster. I have a fair idea who you are talking about & unfortunately I would say the current experiment is completely flawed.
It would be a simple matter of denying a member the right to a proper secure password then manipulate the situation to avoid their membership to the forum section then deny & block all communication. Don't think this can happen.. It already does.. The standard practice in some states..
He trolls here & reports back to his masters so I would suggest that Open & Transparent is more effective & makes sure that no Person can Hide from the responsibilities of their position. Volunteer or Otherwise..
In fact, if I may ask, What woudl be so important as to hide anything in a hidden site. Just becomes a faceless complainer in the background which has caused the current problems. Only this time the world does not become aware of the Failings of those who claim to have the best interests of the sport & hobby at heart.
Insurance Policy Lapsed perhaps?
Well shouldn't everybody know.. It's important to members as well as he Public that allow us to use their lakes.
Unfortunatelly every issue comes down to the simple Integrity of those involved. We need change Not pander to those that want to keep everything hidden..
So I would ask that if the Exec Member who supports this suggestion of hidden areas that they speak out & justify their position with solid grounding.
In 3 years there has been nothing but disaster from this Exec Member & every idea is grasped from others then picked apart & put forward as their own. When questioned they run & hide.
Personally I don't think a Hidden Area will work, Just the same as sending an email to the Secretary & it gets ignored.. We have all seen this happen before.
Need to change the Behaviour as expecting the Leopard to change his spots is insane.
Change the Leopard instead.
-- Edited by waboats on Friday 22nd of July 2011 08:10:45 AM
-----Original Message----- From: PFP [mailto:waboats@yahoo.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 20 July 2011 2:50 PM To: Ken Dobbie Cc: Hub Bell; casden1@bigpond.com; halesinst@hotmail.com; rcyachtie@hotmail.com; arya.publicity@moby58.com; trevjeff@ihug.com.au; shcrewes@bigpond.net.au Subject: ARYA Moderator Vacancy
Mr Dobbie
Firstly forgive me if I have omitted any of the appropriate ARYA Executive Officers.
It has come to my attention through Mr Stuart ARYA Publicity Officer, that the position of Forum Moderator is to be advertised or expressions of interest sought to fill this position.
As I see the ARYA forum as the sole means by which Grass Roots Sailors can keep abreast with what is happening within the Radio Sailing Community within Australia, not limited to any one particular Class or ideal, it is my belief that the closure of the ARYA Forum has cast a negative image on the ARYA as a whole. 2 Radio Waves Newsletters have dealt with this issue yet nothing seems to have progressed.
An unfortunate situation that if left as it is will fester a belief in the greater membership that the ARYA has little interest in the ideas of the Grass Root Sailors nor their opinions .
To this end & with a view to again having the Forum opened for greater participation, it is my understanding that only a Moderator is needed. Not that I believe a great impact by a Moderator was nor is needed given the freedoms of expression & self awareness evolutions that are a part of a modern society.
As you know prior to closing the Forum I had actually put my name forward as a possible applicant for the position.
As the Position of Forum Moderator is now to be advertised, I would therefore like to provide for a formal expression of interest in applying for this position.
My experiences are vast, having nearly 30 years involvement in the IT Field, Strong Links to the Financial sector & a vast degree & understanding of Legislative practices & procedures. Insurance, Finance, Administrative & Constitutional processes are well within my capabilities
My views of transparency & Openness are quite well known & it is therefore encumbent on this position to act impartially & without undue influence from others. My Integrity is not for sale nor can I be pressured by others into taking a view that is clearly against the Greater Good.
If I was to be granted such a position my understanding is that there could & would be no suggestion of influence nor cronyism from the ARYA as clearly the desire is to avoid any Conflict of Interests that currently exist.
Some would say I am perhaps the most vocal of opponent to the ARYA process & in part that is true. I do not nor will ever take the view that silence on important issues is a proper course of action. Having me as the Moderator shows that the ARYA does not fear investigation nor questioning & is open to checks from the greater membership. A close friend of the ARYA could be see as mere tokenism & a move to silence the right to ask questions..
As a Moderator I will treat everybody with the correct degree of fairness & empathy. Notwithstanding the degree to which any complainant must also show the other party. It will not for me to negate critics of the ARYA but more to provide for a passage by which a person will & can be heard.
I will be vigilant in following through on unanswered or unaddressed issues & will publicly show that the ARYA is indeed aware of the issues at hand & is actively providing for solutions to issues & in doing so keeping the greater membership informed & treating them with the respect they deserve.
So I now await your responses to my application for this Moderator Position & in doing so I would appreciate you dealing with this matter in an appropriate manner & with a clear head.
This is a copy of a post I have just made on the ARYA forum. I do not expect this post to survive the night but I believe, for the good of radio yachting in this country it needs to be made public. Post is a s follows.
It has come to my notice that Ken Dobbie, acting in the capacity of a 'moderator' of these forums' has publicly advised that he has modified posts by forum members. My personal view is that this is tantamount to a fraudulent practice in that the poster's original intentions may have deliberately been 'modified' or 'censored' to suit the moderator's point of view. This is totally unacceptable. The moderator, in my opinion, should have let the post remain unaltered, or if defamatory, which is the only other condition that I am aware of, that would lead to a post being deleted, should be deleted.
But under no circumstances should a post if allowed to remain on this forum, be tampered with. Absolutely and totally unacceptable in my opinion.
And the statement made by the man himself in that he as a moderator is not answerable to anybody, is in my opinion, if supported by other members of the ARYA, an indictment of the structure that exists within the ARYA in general terms. There can be no other conclusion.
Below, in italics, is a copy of the last post by Ken Dobbie before he unilaterally decided to shut down a discussion that many members had participated in, but for which no satisfactory conclusion had been reached.
"The original post to this thread by Maverick asks a reasonable question which was answered by Graeme Turk, ARYA's Publicity Officer in post #5.
Graeme indicated the various roles and responsibilities within the ARYA structure, particularly the role of affiliates (State Councils) in relation to promotion of our sport.
I would have thought that any reasonable person would have taken the point and, if they had a genuine cause, approached their State Council with suggestions/questions. I am aware that Maverick has approached his Victorian State Council with an offer of assistance and I hope this offer has born fruit.
There is one point where I would raise issue with Maverick and that is in relation to his claims, repeated by others, of censorship of the forum. I have reviewed my private messages to members of this forum and can find one of Maverick's posts which I modified to remove words reported to me by another member as claiming to be offensive and there may have been one or two other posts, not necessarily by Maverick, removed by me due to being off topic or other valid reasons. Certainly not the wholesale removal suggested in Don's posts.
I would remind members that their membership of this forum is not a right and it may well be that a formal code of conduct is necessary to ensure that certain standards are maintained. It is of real concern to me that some members of the forum after reviewing certain of their posts, have withdrawn them and privately apologised only to repeat their actions when they should know better.
I have received a number of reports to the moderator from members of the forum complaining about the content and tone of many posts on this thread. I have also had emails and telephone calls from Association members suggesting if forum members continue to abuse the forum then perhaps the forum should be discontinued as the views expressed are not those of the membership generally.
I have referred the content of this thread to the ARYA Executive to seek their views on some of the claims made in these posts and for this reason have locked the thread to posts until I have their responses, at which stage I will post their views on the subject.
I have just reviewed a post made to this thread whilst typing this response. I have copied the response, deleted it and temporarily suspended membership of the forum to this poster. The ARYA Executive will be considering what action is necessary in respect of this post.
Ken Dobbie National Secretary"
The only response to this is that once again, whilst a disciplinary action had been made public, there has been no indication of an official ARYA public response to this member's alleged infraction of the rules. Once again the ARYA committee has come up lacking in credibility.
This post will also be available on my own website and forum should it be deleted.
I have no idea how radio yachting in this country is to progress unless member's are freely entitled to speak their minds, despite the personal opinion of moderator's. As long as no one is being defamed, then surely, the posts must be allowed to remain.
What on earth can possibly be wrong with that concept?
-- Edited by Maverick on Saturday 24th of October 2009 10:58:45 PM
Don
I totally agree with your comments..
I have noticed of late a few posts seem to disapper on this forum. No defamation or other infractions appear to be present.
Recently I posted a communication in regards to Volunteering to undertake the ARYA Forum Moderators position. It now has disappeared.
I seen no malice nor other infractions in the content. I'm confused..
Was there a reason for the deletion or is there a problem on the site. I am aware other Hobby Forums have recently gone through a heavy virus threat.
There is no such thing as a obedient MAVERICK. The words take on a resounding CRASH of ideas. I can see you being banished to the top paddock AGAIN. Takes one to know one. And How dare you to ask those sorts of questions, you are getting above your station.
This is a copy of a post I have just made on the ARYA forum. I do not expect this post to survive the night but I believe, for the good of radio yachting in this country it needs to be made public. Post is a s follows.
It has come to my notice that Ken Dobbie, acting in the capacity of a 'moderator' of these forums' has publicly advised that he has modified posts by forum members. My personal view is that this is tantamount to a fraudulent practice in that the poster's original intentions may have deliberately been 'modified' or 'censored' to suit the moderator's point of view. This is totally unacceptable. The moderator, in my opinion, should have let the post remain unaltered, or if defamatory, which is the only other condition that I am aware of, that would lead to a post being deleted, should be deleted.
But under no circumstances should a post if allowed to remain on this forum, be tampered with. Absolutely and totally unacceptable in my opinion.
And the statement made by the man himself in that he as a moderator is not answerable to anybody, is in my opinion, if supported by other members of the ARYA, an indictment of the structure that exists within the ARYA in general terms. There can be no other conclusion.
Below, in italics, is a copy of the last post by Ken Dobbie before he unilaterally decided to shut down a discussion that many members had participated in, but for which no satisfactory conclusion had been reached.
"The original post to this thread by Maverick asks a reasonable question which was answered by Graeme Turk, ARYA's Publicity Officer in post #5.
Graeme indicated the various roles and responsibilities within the ARYA structure, particularly the role of affiliates (State Councils) in relation to promotion of our sport.
I would have thought that any reasonable person would have taken the point and, if they had a genuine cause, approached their State Council with suggestions/questions. I am aware that Maverick has approached his Victorian State Council with an offer of assistance and I hope this offer has born fruit.
There is one point where I would raise issue with Maverick and that is in relation to his claims, repeated by others, of censorship of the forum. I have reviewed my private messages to members of this forum and can find one of Maverick's posts which I modified to remove words reported to me by another member as claiming to be offensive and there may have been one or two other posts, not necessarily by Maverick, removed by me due to being off topic or other valid reasons. Certainly not the wholesale removal suggested in Don's posts.
I would remind members that their membership of this forum is not a right and it may well be that a formal code of conduct is necessary to ensure that certain standards are maintained. It is of real concern to me that some members of the forum after reviewing certain of their posts, have withdrawn them and privately apologised only to repeat their actions when they should know better.
I have received a number of reports to the moderator from members of the forum complaining about the content and tone of many posts on this thread. I have also had emails and telephone calls from Association members suggesting if forum members continue to abuse the forum then perhaps the forum should be discontinued as the views expressed are not those of the membership generally.
I have referred the content of this thread to the ARYA Executive to seek their views on some of the claims made in these posts and for this reason have locked the thread to posts until I have their responses, at which stage I will post their views on the subject.
I have just reviewed a post made to this thread whilst typing this response. I have copied the response, deleted it and temporarily suspended membership of the forum to this poster. The ARYA Executive will be considering what action is necessary in respect of this post.
Ken Dobbie National Secretary"
The only response to this is that once again, whilst a disciplinary action had been made public, there has been no indication of an official ARYA public response to this member's alleged infraction of the rules. Once again the ARYA committee has come up lacking in credibility.
This post will also be available on my own website and forum should it be deleted.
I have no idea how radio yachting in this country is to progress unless member's are freely entitled to speak their minds, despite the personal opinion of moderator's. As long as no one is being defamed, then surely, the posts must be allowed to remain.
What on earth can possibly be wrong with that concept?
-- Edited by Maverick on Saturday 24th of October 2009 10:58:45 PM
__________________
Maverick Model Yachting - The Only Way To Go! Secret Alias - Don Leitis
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