model yachting Australia - including d'12metre radio yacht forums

waboats · Senior Member

PROMOTING MM's

waboats · Senior Member

As promised a few days have past to allow RSAWA to post their take on the MM Event they held... Published by The Spy (Mr Stuart's [ARYA publicity Officer] & his Alter Ego)

http://www.rsawa.asn.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=181:2011-micro-magic-event&catid=56:reports&Itemid=99

Safe to say that nobody outside the RSAWA Structure was prepared to attend given the Formality extended to this day, And a Clear lack of Consultation with those that actually Sail & Race the Micro Magic on a regular basis.

Mr Bell ARYA President & Others (RSAWA Secretary etc) were aware that I would not be sailing, due to prior commitments & there was nothing hidden here..

My feeling has always been that the lack of consideration to those sailing was always designed to make the day an unlikely success & more specifically arranged to keep numbers down.. Even the main RSAWA Contact & chief organiser (WA Secretary Ross Bennet) who also owns a Micro Magic didn't turn up on the day.

The view of many others I have spoken to revolved around

"the view the Day would be better & more appropriately organised in an informal & friendly manner where they could Gauge whether RSAWA & The Clubs are suitable & supporting to their needs. Not the other way around.

That being said I attended on the day albeit not Sailing & Not having signed nor entered a boat as per the requirements of the RSAWA Notice of Race. Once again nothing hidden here.

When we arrived (accompanied by another MM Skipper) we were greeted with a Tirade of Abuse from an RSAWA Management Committee Member..

Claims that this event was arranged for MY BENEFIT & where were My Boats for them to use.. . I asked how & when this has supposedly been communicated to me or anybody outside the RSAWA & where was the consultation with the owners & sailors of the MM..

Not a Tirade for me as it was clearly an arranged performance for the Audience. I let it slide waiting to see where things would go. I was after all only there as an observer & to report back what I had seen & heard.

All that I would provide is that this was marginally better organised than the last 2 debacles at Champion Lakes. It was clear there was no undestanding of the MM Rules & they attempted to cobble together a version that was somewhat loose (Very Loose) version of the rules on the day. I had a copy of the SI's if they needed one but they didn't. They didn't ask nor seek our assistance even though we had offered previously.

Lucky they managed to get a few loan boats (1 outside RSAWA) otherwise the event was a complete No Go as per their NOR.

As per the Fun I will leave the participants to decide what they got out of it.. For me it was the quietest Micro Magic Racing I have ever witnessed with the concentration on winning & tactics being the priority. Lack of support & help tuning between races was also a thing that concerned me. There were obvious signs there that some should have offered assistance to those having a few difficulties.. One of the peculiar things that happens in MM Racing & we don't consider it Outside Assistance, it's all part of the fun..

So in summary & as I have stated to RSAWA delegates on many occasions, it makes no difference whether RSAWA or its' clubs show any respect to the MM Class & its members in WA.. The Groups will continue to flourish in spite of the structured & inflexible RSAWA approach. My preference is for RSAWA to stop dipping their collective oars in the water, only to make it muddy, and leave the class & its' members alone to further their promotion of the MM class & enjoyment of their hobby in a manner that suits their individual needs.

Perhaps RSAWA should take note of the reasons why they were again unsuccessful & maybe next time engage a more appropriate approach that seeks to Include & Encourage not their standard Elitist & somewhat arrogant approach.

Cheers

John

PS I called & emailed the Abuser several days ago to discuss "HIS ISSUES & CONCERNS" & all I have recieved is an SMS saying he will call.

I goyt my return call & other taht tehre is a perception that I have an agenda,,, But nobody can seem to impart what this agenda actually is, I pretty much have no reason to amend.

I still beleive the ARYA/RSAWA Club system needs to demonstarte an Inclusion & Encouragement approach rather than one where groups have to satisfy some unwritten procedure & criteria before gaing acceptance.

19 Countries 7000+ boats I think there is worldwide acceptance.. Being in the Backwater of Radio Sailing (soon no longer the centre of the universe) & the most isolated capital city in the world. does it really matter. confuse

-- Edited by waboats on Thursday 13th of October 2011 02:45:32 PM

-- Edited by waboats on Thursday 13th of October 2011 06:10:31 PM

-- Edited by waboats on Thursday 13th of October 2011 08:15:25 PM

waboats · Senior Member

Mav

In some ways I can hear what you are sayin..

I too am concerned that the basic idea of the boat could indeed be lost in the Total Win @ All Costs mentality.

It was refreshing to see that 3 Motions I put to the MM AGM were accepted & very tightly contested.. Well 2 Actually & the 3rd was overwhelmingly approved to keep the fees @ $5pa to join the AMMCA.

The other 2 motions (Authority to Run Racing & Limit to 3 rigs) were defeated but the Vote was very very close. The closeness woke a few up..

I thought both would get slammed & nobody would care, but I was pleasantly surprised & although defeated I am more than happy that there is a view that the Boat must remain within the reach of the New Beginner.

Most of the Groups here in WA are deciding by themselves to limit their modifications & only when absolutely necessary. They have seen the other altenative & self regulate keeping it fun & without too much straying from the Kit.

Yes to join in the passion to compete some think the Boat needs modifications. I am here to say after nearly 4 years with a boat & 3 of those competing with others my passion to fiddle & improve have seen little gains & improvements but certainly not to the point where I am streets ahead. In fact some make the boat slower in some conditions.

I tend to return to Kit sails when competeing locally. Not all are the same as me so yes some boats get modified quite a bit. Not expensive but need to start out with the ideas in place & that is usually not known by somebody new. And so their boat caanot be adjusted later.

All of my tips ideas, modifications are posted on the website. I have taken some ideas from other sites (Germnany is good) & encourage as mcuh sharing of ideas as possible.

I agree however when it comes to National & State competitions that the better sailors seem to have all the go fast modifications.. 2010 Nationals (the First) showed the differences between some boats. To get to that level the newcomer is startled by the flash & bling..

My feeling is that yes there may need to be something to encourage the newcomer & the person who keeps the Boat Standard.

Maybe not this next championships but the One After I was thinking that a MK2 National Championship ie run as the B Fleet & with limited modifications as close as possible to the Kit Boat. The only modification I would see necessary would be the rudder control pushrod.

Would be like running an Micro Magic Class Championship & a MK2 Championship..

We have an encouragement award at the moment & maybe this could be used for a MK2 Kit Boat champ.. Or bring in another award

All worth considering.

I was asked in 2009 to put my hand up for the committee but I just didn't have the time. This year however I have lightened things a little & now have some time to commit.

I put my name forward for the International Reperesentative & I got me elected.

So I'm all ears for any ideas that might improve on how things get done.. I'm only one voice but I tend to put ideas forward even if they are from left field. I find even though I may not see merit in some ideas that by putting things out there for discussion there are others that can improve on things & maybe come up with other alternatives.

We may never change the pure racer way of doing things & that's not too bad. But I think that if we can encourage the new beginner the groundsweell of support can keep the beginners & those outside the ARYA system in control of the development of the class in Australia.

I listen to every idea whether that is inside or outside the accepted Radio Sailing system.. & I always to see value in ideas from outside as they aren't corrupted by the system.

So feel free to send me an Email, PM, or phone... My contact is on the MM Website & there for all to see..

Cheers

John

AUS137 (+ 9 more cry )

PS More on the WA event onces a few days have settled..

-- Edited by waboats on Monday 10th of October 2011 08:57:28 PM

Maverick · Guru

I had promoted the Micro Magic on my website, long before there was an official Australian MM Association. Because I believed in the concept of unmodified boats being equal to all. I even joined the Association for a while, until it became controlled by the competition oriented jerks who spoiled all the fun.

I have nothing but contempt for these IOM, EC12, Marblehead, A Class and 10-Rater sailors who have since taken over the total control of the class to transform it from a grass roots promotion, into one where the newbie is no longer welcome. Just like the existing competition clubs.

And these people tend to be the dinosaurs of the model yachting fraternity, whose brusque natures, and lack of humour discourage the very people I thought this class was aimed at!

I can only hope that before long, these dinosaurs will meet the same fate as their prehistoric namesakes... And once again provide for rebirth and new growth!

waboats · Senior Member

The latest communication with RSAWA re the Promotion of Micro Magic .

Unfortunately RSAWA are unwilling to answer to anything or anybody outside the inner circle.

As late as this weekend we have one MM Sailor close to this event make sit clear that the MM Sailing Instructions & Rule sare not being considered.

The unfortunate complexity of this Secret Society is that getting anything from them is worse than pulling teeth. No doubt they will cobble together a few members & loan boats to say they haven't failed, yet again. But there will be NO actual commitment to furthering the class & we will be left with no way forward.

So the Groups that sail the Class will continue as they always have..

blankstare Oblivious & Quite content to enjoy their hobby well away from the Administrators that only seek to cobble power, position & looking good on a resume..

Over a week & still no Reply....

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: PFP <waboats@yahoo.com.au>
To: Ross Bennett <secretary@rsawa.asn.au>
Cc: "kelvin.uren@rcrtom.com.au" <kelvin.uren@rcrtom.com.au>
Sent: Monday, 26 September 2011, 18:22
Subject: Re: RSAWA MM Invitation event

Mr Bennett

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

Firstly I have spoken at length to some of the guys & ladies that sail Micro Magic's on a regular basis.

It is their feeling that the questions they needed answering appear to have been avoided & they see little point in attending an Invitation & Demonstration Day when it is clearly framed as a competition & race day. On the printed material there is little opportunity to divert from the process currently in place.

Their view is that it would be more appropriately organised in an informal & friendly manner where they could Gauge whether RSAWA & The Clubs are suitable & supporting to their needs. Not the other way around. At present there is no reward for them to join RSAWA & so far the returns & attitudes towards anybody outside the RSAWA system has been less than welcoming. This is a valid & longstanding concern from many people, not just those sailing Micro Magic's. So we aren't talking about anything previously unknown.

Unfortunately the lack of support to any class other than IOM's by your own initiated Motion @ WCRYC AGM would seem to support their concerns. They feel that by joining RSAWA or any club that they would not be permitted to sail their boats without excessive political posturing. Which the Micro Magic Class is totally against.

So as it stands none of those outside the RSAWA system (and several inside) will be attending your Invitation day. That is not to say there is no Interest in Micro Magic's in WA, but more that they have concerns about the support structure & attitudes currently in place.

Clearly a formal Notice of Race is inappropriate when the RSAWA clubs can't even confirm 5 committed attendees & have no knowledge nor Interest in who or where Micro Magic's are presently sailed. Perhaps a re-think on how you went about things would be more appropriate.

The belief is the Micro Magic Class, is fun orientated, with a degree of competition, and is more suited to a relaxed & friendly atmosphere & not as they have experienced in the past. The Nationals in WA is but one example..

From a personal point of view I tend to think that the Excessive Formality attached to this Invitation Day is not unexpected. Appears geared towards a negative outcome from the outset. Clearly there is unlikely support for such formality when considering the philosophises & Identity of the Micro Magic Class, especially from those outside the excessively competitive nature of IOM racing.

Might I suggest that any future attempts to assess the Micro Magic Class, suitability for WA , that firstly you seek the input of those regularly involved in the class & not from those that have little if any understanding of how the Micro Magic has evolved into the worlds fastest growing class of Radio Yacht. Sailed in 19 recognised Countries and in excess of 7000 registered Boats.

Yours

waboats · Senior Member

Some might think I am a bit harsh on this but they have very short memories in WA ... The same things are happening all over again..

To assist with some understanding

From 26 March 2009

http://www.aus.magicmicro.org/p/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?1614.post

Hi Guys,

Pleased to announce that the Champion Lakes Boat Club Sailing division will be starting and supporting Micro Magics from Sunday 5th April.

We plan to have regular sailing on Wednesdays and Sundays, subject to other events.

On Sundays, will be Micro Magics from 11.30am to 1.30pm (arrive around 11am), and the IOM's later in the afternoon.

Sun 5th April is a free 'come along and see' day........

.....The Champion Lakes Boat Club will be going down the path of affiliation with RSAWA and ARYA and intends to be a fully sanctioned club sailing State and National events. Once affiliated, you will also need to be a ARYA member (for insurance and to compete in events - usual stuff of any club)

Since this False post by Mr Stuart, I have unfortunately have had to field 100 or more calls from Disgruntled people going down to try out the venue only to see it locked or nobody there. Some are now MM & Radio Sailors but not surprisingly anti-RSAWA way of doing things...

Nothing from Mr Stuart to assist & he has refused to amend the post when requested.

-- Edited by waboats on Sunday 28th of August 2011 03:38:39 PM

-- Edited by waboats on Sunday 28th of August 2011 05:25:58 PM

waboats · Senior Member

And here we go again..

More Changes. The AMMCA Sailing Instructions are there & suddenly they are removed.. They obviously don't like how MM Style racing is done...

NO PROTESTS.... Oops did I mention even the AMMCA believe it was to be run under the MM SI's.. sorry GT looks like we are both wrong.. Probably shouldn't hav ementioned they had the SI's on the site.. compare the amended time for the Web Notice.

Have to say it is now listed on the Notice of Race as a Championship. What's next.

Personally if this is a true promotion event to gauge interest the whole concept is flawed from the begining.

What MM's really need is..to turn up, talk about the class, demo the boat, Sail a few races, pass the boats around & have a fun days sailing.. If it goes from there then so be it.. A full Race Day with awards for places is doomed as a demonstration, promotion & marketing opportunity.

Too Much of a Race Day & Competitive Event in my opinion... Complete wrong focus for starting out....

Especially with such strong opposition to the class in WA

-- Edited by waboats on Sunday 28th of August 2011 12:36:09 AM

waboats · Senior Member

waboats wrote:
Moby58 wrote:

Entry is open to any Micro Magic sailor, whether a member of an RSAWA/ARYA/AMMCA club or not.
Full details, entry form, etc at the RSAWA website

waboats wrote:

Alan

All sounds good.. I've been keeping up to date with this event for the last few weeks & a few guys have been asking me when, where & how.

Mostly they want to know if they are welcome.. Last outing was for RSAWA members only so they stayed away. No outside communication or advertising. The numbers were low as a result.

I've sent them a copy of the Notice of Race & Entry details. Most aren't arya club members as you know from past experience.. Refer my PM from 2009.

A question has now been asked.

Is the event/day covered by the ARYA Public Liability Insurance & are they completely covered for 3rd Party Liability in case of an accident, even if they sign the entry form. They would like a clear answer.

Knowing the area & the passing traffic I would have to ask the same. The Entry Form is a less than clear on this issue.

As you should be aware the City of South Perth press for Public Liability Insurance & Fees to use their facilities (have run a few dog related events at the exact same spot) I know that a permit will be needed.

Is the event to be run under the Standard AMMCA Sailing Instructions. All the guys I sail MM's with are encouraged to go the way of AMMCA SI's whether they are ARYA Club member or Not.. Keeps it consistent. We also use very simplified rules to assist people New to Radio Sailing & encourage active interaction during racing.

With answers I can lets the Guys & Girls know & leave it to them to decide if they want to enter or participate. I'll be sailing MM's on Saturday morning (tomorrow) Sunday afternoon & Mid-week as well. 3 different groups so I am across most of what is happening in WA, MM Style...

There was/is also a concern that if they make the trip & turn up on the day it may not go ahead..

* From an RSAWA email If we dont have five (5) boats entered by the close of nominations (1345 on the day), then the event will be cancelled.

Knowing how low the turnout was last time, can you guarantee that if somebody who is prepared to travel 100km's or more wont be disappointed because of only a few boats.

I think this minimum number shouldn't be listed as this will tend to drive participation away, rather than encourage.

Can you clarify..

Cheers

John

Looks like I am right with the same old style of management & promotion.

The only thing I think RSWAWA will prove here is taht they don't know anything about MM Style Racing.

So far the NOR is inconsistent with the Sailing Instructions..

The question has been asked about INSURANCE & whether it has Council Approval to use the Facilities.

It is even more important because NON-ARYA Affiliated Club Members are invited..

Both Questions have gone UNANSWERED.

For Obvious Reasons Mr Stuart will stay silent.. Yes there is NO Insurance Coverage for any skipper.

All skippers will be responsible in the event of an accident to any & ALL PERSONs whether they be an entrant or a spectator or innocent passer by.

This is something they just can't seem to deal with nor provide for a clear absolute set of points when & where it is in effect.

Legal Opinion is the Indemnity on the Entry Form takes away your right to coverage.. You sign this right away. The comments from Mr Dobbie in Radio Waves have no Legal support when it comes to making a claim...

I note Mr Dobbie has not put out an Insurance Policy Explanation Document this year not even the Certificate of Currency for the Policy...

Where does the $8000 pa bill go to & what is its purpose...

-- Edited by waboats on Saturday 27th of August 2011 10:38:04 AM

waboats · Senior Member

Looks like we have them out in the open.

http://www.aus.magicmicro.org/p/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?3145.last

More questions than answers...

Looks like my email about the Sailing Instructions touched a nerve & they have them now listed on the RSAWA website.

Still the Notice of Race is inconsistent with the SI's..

I do hope they have somebody who knows their way around the MM to officiate as the last effort with IOM skippers not even knowing about touching Buoys & the 6 Boat Length zone was a complete disaster.

I suppose I deliberately crashed the Buoys & got disqualified for not doing a penalty just to highlight how little they knew. disbelief Oops that's right there was no penalty.. blankstare

Protests in MM Sailing don't exist.. They wouldn't want me as the Parent (Refer MM SI's) because if it got to a protest hearing both boats would be DSQ no matter who is at fault.. That's the power of the parent...

Sort it out on the water.. biggrin

-- Edited by waboats on Friday 26th of August 2011 11:20:08 PM

waboats · Senior Member

Gosh

I must be Pschyic. Or maybe the Post got them thinking. Not sure what an IOM set of sails will do for an MM though.. blankstare

Possibility of turning up on the day only to find it cancelled... Ouch...

Looks like the same old style involved. Can't say I will be sailing with the NOR as it is...

From: Ross Bennett [mailto:secretary@rsawa.asn.au]
Sent: Friday, 26 August 2011 12:47 PM
To: Alan Stuart; bedfamily@iinet.net.au; Chris Aberle; Gary Cotterell; Glenn Dawson; John Harris; Kelvin Uren; Paul Wilkinson; Pauline Dunning; Ray Forsyth; rlmews@iinet.net.au; Rodney Popham; Roger Paul; Denton Roberts; Fred Webber; Graeme Howie; Hub Bell; Ian Ritchie; Rod and Paula Moss; Wilf Brewster
Cc: Graeme Turk
Subject: Micro Magic Invitation Race Day - Notice of Race & Entry Form

To All WA Clubs:

At last weeks RSAWA management meeting, it was decided that we would hold an invitation race day for Micro Magic sailors.

Attached is a Notice of Race, which has been simplified as much as possible to keep with the principal of an inaugural invitation race day, but still setting the ground rules for the day.

There is also a manual entry form, and very soon on-line entries will be available. Entries will also be accepted on the day.

Shift RY are putting up a set of Logic (A rig) sails for the winner of the event, and RSAWA will cover 2^nd & 3^rd.

If we dont have five (5) boats entered by the close of nominations (1345 on the day), then the event will be cancelled.

Can I ask all clubs to let their members know of the event.

Regards

Ross Bennett

Secretary

RSAWA

-- Edited by waboats on Friday 26th of August 2011 04:32:15 PM

waboats · Senior Member

Well I'm not sure if I am allowed to comment or put a link to this latest development.

Not sure how official this is but I assume all/majority of the WA Committee from RSAWA are in agreement with the promotion of the MM Class in WA. My club Rep didn't know so I was a little surprised.

Previous attempts by a local club have been less than successful due to a variety of reasons.. Proper advertising & marketing strategy were at the forefront. Too Much ARYA Focus with little idea of the Worldwide way of doing things, MM Style..

One can only hope that proper finances & promotion facilities are utilised better.

So far I am unaware of any specifics other than the post on RSAWA website.. http://www.rsawa.asn.au/

Previous RSAWA listing have mysteriously disappeared so hopefully this one will stay.

There is a date of 9th October 2011 being set for an event at South Perth.. Not sure why it isn't at one of the regular Club Venues that are used weekly & maybe a lot closer to the area where the majority of boats are located..

Nothing listed officially on the MM Oz website but this is early days..

I hear they are looking for Loan Boats & with me owning 10 (7 registered sail numbers) & having access to a number of others, I would expect that they may get in touch sometime.

There are several other WA boats that do not have registered sail numbers with numbers now exceeding 50. Most don't sail in ARYA Clubs for obvious reasons, but I do maintain some contact & keep them up to date with any MM developments & arranging a variety of FUN social sail days. .

Hopefully this Event will be successful, but I do question the motif of not investigating where the boats are located before setting a venue.

The current breakup of Registered Sail Numbers by State..

Queensland	77	29.62%
Victoria	99	38.08%
New South Wales	18	6.92%
Wester Australia	30	11.54%
South Australia	20	7.69%
Tasmania	12	4.62%
Europe	4	1.54%
Total Boats	260

-- Edited by waboats on Friday 26th of August 2011 08:23:48 PM

-- Edited by waboats on Friday 26th of August 2011 11:51:15 PM