My own approach and driving force has always been to get new people into the sport.
But having said that, it's good for the newbies to have at least a couple of experienced sailors around, to help them. But not that many that they become their own club within a club. This only alienates the newcomers and can be a most disconcerting and uncomforable situation.
And maybe your concept of the small club would help this work well.
But as with all things there are always exceptions to the rule. I was, until the tyranny of distance reared its ugly head, a member of the Lilydale Radio Yacht Club. That club is a very big club, but it works well, and newcomers are warmly welcomed, and given ongoing and continuing support from all other members. Maybe part of the reason for that club's success is that it is also a multi boat club, in that all members boats, irrespective of size are welcomed.
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Maverick Model Yachting - The Only Way To Go! Secret Alias - Don Leitis
And what I didn't mention ... and perhaps I should have was that new classes just starting out should try for completely new people, rather that trying to get "bodies" from existing classes. The reason I say this is because if we are using the same people over and over again, we are (in fact) not procceeeding forward to any great degree in building number of R/c yachtsmen, per sa.
It could be said it is up to the individual to create the clime for his own enjoyment. We can't blame our mates for ever for not turning up at the pond on race day. I have found over many years that if we make it interesting then the sailors will come. So what do we do about you attracting sailor to your situation?
How about some "Odd Hour Argonauts"? These are the ones that float at any time, day or night. Perhaps race with head lights? Have lit Cardinal Marks at each bouy. And how about a laser ray gun for burning the loosing boat , NOW that would make it interesting?
It is interesting about creating numbers. At one time I was all for it in a big way . There is a downside to it as well . I have always maintained that it is easier to create a series of little clubs rather than try for big clubs. Now , to be fair , over the years , I have seen big clubs fail. The reasons are generally the same each ( time and the "fallout" is unfortunate) deverstating. And it hinges on too bigger clubs and the amount of dead wood that occurs in a club. People get caught into be the officials and somehow the important people "the new arrivals " (the future life of the club) get left to one side to make their own way in the bunch.
If we got all these people who have been in this sport for I don't know how long, got out and started a little new club somewhere of about 6 members, all the hard bits could be smaller.Promotion could be done in one hit.
Take the senario right now : We say promote in an article in a Sailing Magazine , the person reads it , If we get 1% of the readership we think it is going good! then of that 1% how many do we get that actually gets a boat , you can see what I, driving at , it all becomes to hard . we are wacking our brains out for this and there is no feed back and there is a time factor.
On the other hand with the little clubs there is one person out there selling themselves to individuals on a one on one basis. And getting that person straight away.
So if anyone wants to help they can get a kit out for members who want to do this form of promotion on a one to one basis. it is not hard and I think I did a write up of it on the EC12 Class page some years ago.
Now the first thing they say is that they have no time; are there to race , build boats, build sails,etc,etc. Now there are priorities in life but what are priorities for if you run out of members?
There are people asking about how we are going to PROMOTE this sport. The" Big splash" is not going to happen unfortunately. In one fell swoop ,,,, instant members. No it is not going to happen. Apart from that it has been tried every couple of years with limited success. The small club with 6 members has at least got a chance, though.
Henry wrote:A lot of the stuff you're saying Graeme , I don't agree with. It doesn't seemed to be based on any facts or figures and as you're having a go at Mav about starting clubs around his area , well he works all these odd hours and times. He would jump at the chance to have a normal club meet near him. Most of us would. Out of all the clubs in Sydney , how many have the National Committee or Radio Waves started?
Do you think Radio waves will provide a club for people around where Mav lives and why haven't you done it so far?
Good points Henry.
I would love some help from the National Committe to promote Radio Yachting in my area.
But you know, for all the words issued by the ARYA powers that be, criticising me for being negative, despite my attempts to promote this sport, the most help I have received is, not from the ARYA, but has come from you Henry, and persons like you, and, believe it or not, from the members of the Latrobe Valley Model Aero Club!
And I am working at my own expense and influence to develop something down here in South Gippsland.
But thank you ARYA for nothing!!! Oh, and for your non-constructive criticism.
Oops sorry. Being a member of the ARYA entitles you to insurance in case your out of control yacht should seriously injure or kill someone.
Perhaps someone from the ARYA would be kind enough to tell their members how many claims have been made on the ARYA policies, for example, over the last 10 or 20 years.
But I wouldn't hold my breath on the ARYA being open on this one. Any more than I would hold my breath on the ARYA being open and informative and communicative, about anything to do with radio yachting.
-- Edited by Maverick at 01:05, 2008-07-05
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Maverick Model Yachting - The Only Way To Go! Secret Alias - Don Leitis
This is most certainly not meant to be a private conversation. In fact, my approach is, is that if something is posted on a public forum, then anybody has a right to post anything to it, provided no personal attacks are made, because the whole point is, is that these forums' are here to provide information, and to discuss issues.
Under that regime personal attacks are not only inappropriate, but should they be made, can only be a result of attack the person when you cannot argue against his/her comments. This is typically the approach of the stupid individual. And most definitely of the fanatic.
But mostly, in my experience, the people that make personal attack posts are demonstrating to the world that they are stupid, ignorant and are bullies.
And how can one respect a person like that, I ask you?
But back to the contents of the previous post.
I see no problem with people challenging facts and figures, as it has already been proven so many times that statistics can lie, or at least, distort the truth.
People need to be comfortable with statistics if they are provided, and stand ready to be asked about the basis of the numbers they provide. That is everybody's right.And it should not be viewed as a personal attack on anything. Sometimes people just want the raw figures, so that they can make up their own minds, without external influences.
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Maverick Model Yachting - The Only Way To Go! Secret Alias - Don Leitis
We , in our club have found a use for old Radio Waves! We read them and then hand them out to any new people that turn up.
A lot of the stuff you're saying Graeme , I don't agree with. It doesn't seemed to be based on any facts or figures and as you're having a go at Mav about starting clubs around his area , well he works all these odd hours and times. He would jump at the chance to have a normal club meet near him. Most of us would. Out of all the clubs in Sydney , how many have the National Committee or Radio Waves started? And are you saying that all the publicity for clubs should only come from Radio Waves? Or can anyone promote the sport? Do you think Radio waves will provide a club for people around where Mav lives and why haven't you done it so far? You know yourself Maverick , how when the forum gets interesting how an interesting discussion can be had. Where the problems occur is when some people get personal. I have learnt a lot over the time in forums especially when they start to gang -up on someone. And I have made lots of new mates that turned out to come firm friends. Yep , I reckon I've made more freinds than enemies.
Sorry Graeme, but the growth based on distribution of Radio Waves is rather, shall we say, interesting. More important would I think be, the figures based on paid up membership, year by year. But it seems those figures are secret.
And waning memberships in some classes being picked up in others may be true, but does not appear to be reflected in attendances at either State or National Championships, where numbers just seem to have decreased across the board in all classes except perhaps the IOM.
I am at a loss to understand why someone who claims to promote the sport of radio sailing continues to try and make any positive statement into a negative. Distribution of Radio Waves is based on actual paid up members of ARYA affiliated clubs plus 10% which allows clubs a few extra to cater for new members or as a give away for promotional activities. As such it accurately reflects actual membership growth over time. There are a great number of dedicated volunteers out there in Clubs across the country in the process of promoting and managing their groups that are not interested in posting to web sites or talk fests .... they only want to get out there and sail and manage their groups effectively. They should be supported as best we can. While controversy and negative posts may attract more hits to a web site they do not help in promoting our sport but rather are in my opinion a turn off. I am interested to hear that you are investigating suitable sailing venues in your area and look forward to hearing more of your future successes in establishing our sport in your area.
Graeme Turk
Perhaps if I can respond comment by comment.
"I am at a loss to understand why someone who claims to promote the sport of radio sailing continues to try and make any positive statement into a negative."
It is not my intention to make positives into negatives, but it is certainly my intention to get the facts, and question what is purported to be fact when the basis is shall we say, subjective.
"Distribution of Radio Waves is based on actual paid up members of ARYA affiliated clubs plus 10% which allows clubs a few extra to cater for new members or as a give away for promotional activities. As such it accurately reflects actual membership growth over time."
This is most interesting that even whilst I have been a paid up member of the ARYA for a period exceeding 14 months now, I am still to receive my copy of Radio Waves that was issued late last year sometime as I recall. All that does is confirm that not much reliance can be placed on distribution of Radio Waves as a measure of growth.
"There are a great number of dedicated volunteers out there in Clubs across the country in the process of promoting and managing their groups that are not interested in posting to web sites or talk fests .... they only want to get out there and sail and manage their groups effectively. They should be supported as best we can."
I totally agree with this comment.
"While controversy and negative posts may attract more hits to a web site they do not help in promoting our sport but rather are in my opinion a turn off."
I am at an absolute loss as to what you mean by this, unless you are insinuating that what I am doing is purely intended to attract attention to my website and/or forum. I am not aware that anybody has been forced to visit, for whatever reason, my sites. As far as I am aware, visits have been purely voluntary. If you are not happy about visiting, then I would certainly have no problem with deleting your logon to my site. I am not concerned about hits to my sites, but I am absolutely concerned with providing information to whoever wants to make the effort to access that information. And you seem to conveniently overlook all the positive comments that have been made on my web-site and indeed on these forums', some of which you yourself have contributed to.
But that does not preclude me from offering personal opinions that may not be impartial or unbiased. And that option is available to anybody.
And nobody has to visit my sites. And nobody has to read what is written.
As a final summary to your post, I must state that, quite frankly Graeme, I personally find your comments an insult to the intelligence of the general radio yachting public. But then again, that is my own personal opinion, and I restate that I do not care in the least whether my sites attract any hits at all.
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Maverick Model Yachting - The Only Way To Go! Secret Alias - Don Leitis
On another thread I posted the following statement:
On the whole radio sailing in Australia is healthy with a growth in the last five years of around 38% based on distribution numbers of Radio Waves the ARYA Newsletter which is produced 3 times a year and distributed to members via their Clubs and recently to a few direct subscriptions both here and overseas.
While there may be a waning of numbers in some classes these are more than picked up by increases in others.
As well of course there are a host of groups/clubs out there that are not affiliated and affiliated Clubs that are comfortable with their existing membership and not seeking to grow at all.
As you are remote from existing clubs have you had any success in getting sailing going locally? To which Maverick replied:
Sorry Graeme, but the growth based on distribution of Radio Waves is rather, shall we say, interesting. More important would I think be, the figures based on paid up membership, year by year. But it seems those figures are secret.
And waning memberships in some classes being picked up in others may be true, but does not appear to be reflected in attendances at either State or National Championships, where numbers just seem to have decreased across the board in all classes except perhaps the IOM.
But I digress. I am encouraging off-topic discussion here which I will terminate herewith. This particular discussion can always be initiated in the General Discussion category if considered worth discussing further. I am at a loss to understand why someone who claims to promote the sport of radio sailing continues to try and make any positive statement into a negative. Distribution of Radio Waves is based on actual paid up members of ARYA affiliated clubs plus 10% which allows clubs a few extra to cater for new members or as a give away for promotional activities. As such it accurately reflects actual membership growth over time. There are a great number of dedicated volunteers out there in Clubs across the country in the process of promoting and managing their groups that are not interested in posting to web sites or talk fests .... they only want to get out there and sail and manage their groups effectively. They should be supported as best we can. While controversy and negative posts may attract more hits to a web site they do not help in promoting our sport but rather are in my opinion a turn off. I am interested to hear that you are investigating suitable sailing venues in your area and look forward to hearing more of your future successes in establishing our sport in your area.
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