model yachting Australia - including d'12metre radio yacht forums

Sorry Mav my Bad..

 

I was going to post this in EC12 in answer to your post but I think it sits better here..

 

Mav & Bob et al

This is a problem for Not on Promoting teh EC12 in Australia but a systemic problem that has evolved over time & is happening to every classs in Australia.

I think the problem is that there are far too many (A Minority) of skippers who join a Number of Clubs & then start to influence the ways things get done.

Over here we have at least One Individual high on the RSAWA Exec that is a member of 4 Clubs.. He influences a great deal of people by his position on the Committee which in turn filters down through the delegates to the members at the lake.

Yes his opinion is then strongly put about as factual, knowing that others have not been provided with an opportunity to openly front their Committee, Deal with the threats & put facts to the deliberations.

The sorry state over here is that unlike NSW where you pay a State Fee for every club you are a member of ($3 I think) in WA you only pay it once. That means that even when the Constitution says you pay per member, they overlook the requirement & Load the membership base of clubs & then hijack any vote.

Just have to see how my Club has gone in the last few months.. It's a sorry tale of woe when you put the actual events on the table & clear for all to see.. I can't seem to get to the root of why Mr Bell & 3 other RSAWA delegates joined the club. And with 3 other delegates already there, it begs the question... Paid a few weeks before the AGM originally Scheduled. Did they pay again after the financial year lapsed & a new AGM reconvened? I hear they paid to enter a particular event & then didn't turn up..

 I hear the rumbles but IMHO it is just Vote Stacking... I don't think we have one delegate from my club WCRYC on the RSAWA committee that isn't a member of another club in one form or another.....

What Voting Rights do Members have as opposed to Associate Members.

Hands in the Air even change to something different when it becomes public knowledge. Behind closed doors it's always the same..

Gutless, I'm not sure.. Complacent certainly... But wait until something Bad Happens & we'll see where that takes us..

 Peter has been banging on for years he tells us. Mav you have been open about your concerns Harry has told us of his experiences & others have shown us that the ARYA system is systemic in its' flaws..

 

When discontent amongst the members became evident the ARYA took the action of closing the Forum.. They would like the same to happen here... Because the message is certanly getting out there.. Just have to see that my Post was read & understood by Mr Bell himself..

 

Told you he had my number.. 

 

The question should be wheteher the ARYA as it stands promotes any Class of RC Yacht & is merely a figure head association that needs to go quietly away & take a good hard look at itself..

 

What this Country needs is proper & transparent Administration not the rubbish we get now.

 

Who is to say another organisation is not better placed to uphold member rights. Yes we need strong leadership & a Head Organising Body.. But it certainly isn't the currently flawed structure of the ARYA.

 

The Only Power as Members we have is to stop paying our fees & stand aside from the structure & win back the rights of members to decide our own representatives & delegates. Or to continue to put the message out there & eventually something will be heard & acted upon.

-- Edited by waboats on Saturday 1st of October 2011 12:06:18 PM

Hi all, Not now, changed to a 40 Farr, a lot faster

Hi The notice arrived on the net today. The pat club is still the place to sail, everyone has a place to sail, even a MM ! At some point the old guard will give up their old entrenched views and things will change. The Same old issues continue to be discussed and as they drag on we lose embers all across the country. All good, I am taking my big boat away for the weekend, going sailing with a progressive club that keeps people on the water, the exec changes every two years.

Hi All, I have not put much to the forum, as with many things life and other intrest get in the way, but I agree that a good national body is the answer. Have a look at the SA 10R notice of race, an example of how the old thinking promotes class racing. Participation is dropping in SA, the IOM class has good intrest and the RM,s struggle on, the A class has gone and the 10r will be next. I have put my 10 away, I have made two requests to move the date based on others being involoved in other events on the 9th....they ignored this......check out who the people are on the NOR. Still no State report for 2010 season, and certainly no broadcast of Association minutes or AGM.,it has become a strange sort of dictatorship by a few that hang on to very old ways of doing things You can only pay the entry fee by cheque attached to the entry, if you notice it closes on the 5th, with the long weekend, we have two days to post and have it delivered. Last years event had three entries The club that broke away a few years ago from the old school continues to grow, and pay attention to it's, members. I feel a bit better now, happy days

Maverick wrote:

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But for now, may I make this comment.

And a national organisation is also needed to ensure that whatever classes are recognised and sailed, may be done so in whichever State they are sailed in. I do not believe it would be conducive to this sport for each State to make up its own rules about individual classes.

 Unless, and this is entirely possible and even probable, that there may exist unique conditions in an area of one State, that where the support of a class is so strong as to warrant a special class rule, even though these same boats would have no other national competition legitimacy!....


.........But there still exists one other major handicap to the reformation of radio yachting in this country!

Where are the new blood members! Those folks not afraid to be intimidated by the dinosaurs that still rule the kingdom?

---

 Don

I have delayed in putting this post up for the last few days in case I was accused of trying to influuence the MM AGM where a Motion was put forward to allow running of events by organisations other than ARYA Clubs.. 3rd Party PLI would still be necessary & no big thing.. In WA it is almoist a necessity as RSAWA refuse to support any New Class of Boat nor encourage teh establishment of smaller groups.

I attended my Club (WCRYC) AGM this weekend on Saturday & the Secretary of RSAWA & ARYA Preseident  are both members.. The Club President says they are associates but I tend to disagree as they pay the same club fees & the constitution does not as far as I am aware allow for any members other than Ordinary Members.

But lets say there has been considerable discussion on Sailing the Micro Magic within the Club.   Big Opportunity to GROW MEMBER NUMBERS AS THE GROUP THAT ASKED THE QUESTION  want to sail mid-week. No conflict or imposition on the IOM class.

The RSAWA Secretary.. (member of Multiple Clubs [4 at least] ) put a motion that the WCRYC to be an IOM Club Only.. No other Classes to be considered... Mr Bell, ARYA President supported the Motion.. 2 Voted against & at least 2 abstained... I think there were 7 in favour...

The problem as I stated the issue should never be about any singular Class but Promotion of ALL classes of Radio Yachts as per the ARYA/RSAWA/WCRYC Constitutions..

In my opinion the Vote sought to take the club away from the Prime Objective of Radio Sailing in Australia... Like I said WA really has no concept of what the Objectives of Radio Sailing really are.. The most interesting point I would make is who Proposed such a Motion & who supported It....

 

To encourage and promote the sport of Radio Yachting in all its branches and to organise and control the sport in Australia.

In furtherance of these aims, the Association shall:

(a) Promote and recognize all classes of yachts for racing;

 

Does the Club by taking such a position seek to avoid recognising & promoting ALL classes of Yachts for Racing... Can it be considered as following the aims of RSAWA & ARYA when it sought to disallow any other class other than IOM's? I'm certainly not comfortable with avoiding the aims of Promotion or Recognising any Class of Yacht.. I don't discriminate on Class...

Yes the initial discussion was Micro Magic (a Toy Boat by any measure) .. But it is sailed & Raced in 19 countries throughout the world with in excess of 8000 Boats registered.... European Championships & National Championships etc.. It certainly meets the ARYA definition of a Class of Yacht for Racing....

But this motion had nothing to do with Micro Magic's.. It is singular in IOM promotion at the expense of all other classes....

 

Certainly a valid reason I would see that the Club may not be held in high regard when considering the anti-sentiment towards all other classes of Radio Yachts other than IOM..

Hi folks!

I know my comments are infrequent but ever since I got into this hobby/sport, I have been trying to promote new growth and interest in this beautiful sport.

Some of you will know of my clashes with the ARYA over the years, about it's lack of general promotion, and it's lack of promotion to complete newbies to the sport, even to the extent that once a Secretary of the ARYA rang me at home and threatened me with physical violence if I persisted with airing my views publicly!

Well, I just took that as an invitation to continue what I was doing, and have continued that approach to this day! I thrive on intimidation and threats, because I know then, that I have hit home!

But for now, may I make this comment.

I believe we still need a national organisation. The sport still needs to cater for International Championships, and the only way that can be done, is through a national body. For one day, the complete novice of today, may become a world champion. Not everybody wants to do that, but to neglect that would be a huge mistake.

And a national organisation is also needed to ensure that whatever classes are recognised and sailed, may be done so in whichever State they are sailed in. I do not believe it would be conducive to this sport for each State to make up its own rules about individual classes. Unless, and this is entirely possible and even probable, that there may exist unique conditions in an area of one State, that where the support of a class is so strong as to warrant a special class rule, even though these same boats would have no other national competition legitimacy!

And now, having said all this, and based on my own personal experiences over the last 10 years or so, I do not believe there is any current office bearer in the ARYA that is capable of driving this sport into new horizons. The time really has come for the old men of the last 30 years of model yachting in this country to gracefully retire and give new blood a go! It is absolutely inconceivable in my mind, that the new blood could do any worse a job of promoting radio yachting in this country than what the ARYA members have done, particularly over the last decade!

But there still exists one other major handicap to the reformation of radio yachting in this country!

Where are the new blood members! Those folks not afraid to be intimidated by the dinosaurs that still rule the kingdom?

The sad and sorry state of things is, is that unless the members are prepared to contribute, unless they are prepared to forego their selfish ways, of sailing, of taking, but putting nothing back into this sport, then we arrive at exactly the same situation we have now!

Let 'SOMEONE ELSE' do it! And we will all criticise 'SOMEONE ELSE' in that cowardly behind their back situation, but will not ever, heaven forbid, take a public stand ourselves! The sport does not need those sort of people! And the sooner we can banish these gutless cowards, the sooner the sport will grow!

 

Careful or they will say you are Bringing Down the Reputation of Radio Sailing...

The Rule Makers are the only ones that can bring such an accusation... Not that they would as this would open the opportunity to respond.. We can't have that so they stay silent.

 

 

The simple answer is the Organisation as it morphed into ARYA from the Model Yachting Association moved from a position of inclusion to one of exclusion.

You nor anybody outside the elite group warrant listening to, nor responding to. You and all of us fellow Grass Roots Skippers, Modellers etc are mere Pond Scum in their eyes....

They'll keep taking your money & laugh at us while they do it.

 

 

I seriously can only see the breaking away by a State & Clubs as a way of fixing the problems.  To Re-Jig the same old tired beast is wasteful & only open to failure.

Just like the EC12 Association there will be Old School Die-Hards who just can't seem to see a better future..

The Only Solution is to Go It Alone & develop a new & better way forward.  

 

Or simply stand by the ARYA Constitution & let the States move the sport forward.. In so far as you can remove the tired old ideas pressured into existance by the current elitist attitudes.   

 

It might pay to check with the Local Model Boat Clubs & see if they would accept modellers under the Yachting & Sailing side as clubs under their arm, for Insurance puroposes..

One big Aquatic & Natical Modellers organisation with branches for Scale, Sail, Speed, with each looking after their own. Hang On isn't that like NAVIGA...

I fear that the IOM may have destroyed any chance of a way forward with the ARYA.. Most don't care about any other class, growth or promotion of the Hobby nor anything that does not affect them locally.

 

Try having a reasonable open discussion on a class not sailed at a club & see where it goes. About 2 minutes & not much more.

 

Realistically with the Clubs Running & taking ownership of all aspects of the hobby (read the NOR) then the ARYA is nothing more than a dead or dying dinosaur. That's why they need crazy policies to show they are still relevant..

Someone should tap them on the shoulder & put them straight...

 

Like I said Predictable People who don't have the Moral Backbone to stand up & put their reasoning & point of view forward..

 

John

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-- Edited by Admin on Saturday 14th of January 2012 12:27:52 AM

Hi John,

I always knew the MM was a great way to go and even promoted it on my own website long before the ARYA accepted it as a Class!

Soooooo, I would just now ask, what has the ARYA, done with statistics such as you have mentioned, to promote this sport of ours?

As a member of the public who is attuned to anything related to yachting, model, full size, or otherwise, in the general community the ARYA is conspicuous by it's absence.

As a promoter of model, or radio yachting, in this country it's performance can only be described as disgraceful!!

And I might suggest that the answer to my original question must be that unless the ARYA updates its operations to be compatible with the 21st century, it's existence, or relevance, in today's society is of no consequence!

Hi to you guys who have bothered to take an interest in, and taken the effort to make comment!

I personally would NOT like an alternative national body set up to cater for the home sailor, the casual sailor, the specialist sailor, the complete novice who has no idea of where to go or what to do, to get involved in this sport, but if the ARYA will not do this, then I do not know how there could be any alternative,

I believe, that in addition to rubber stamping international rules for the seriously competitive classes, they should also cater for the categories I have listed above. This has not happened before, and I fear it will not happen in the future whilst the current septegeniarns still rule the ARYA and terrorise with threats the minions who are not prepared to speak out against them anyway.

But what I don't understand, and this baffles me beyond all belief, is why on earth, the minions are intimidated. After all, they are the folks with all the power!!! Through voting at their local clubs! For their own representatives. For goodness sake, all it takes is a secret ballot or in this day and age, an email vote!

You know, if I had my way, and I am no fan of the American's, but I would totally support the Aussies adopting the USA structure of the AMYA, the American Model Yachting Association. My experience with this organisation, makes the ARYA look like a kindergarten attempt at trying to do something or achieve an objective that they have never ever given any thought to, apart from just existing!