I know the whole thing is a bit of a mess & I put that squarely at the foot of ARYA . The Joy of being at the head of the Class.. They chose to be there & don't seem keen to relinquish the power back to owners. Maybe because the owners simply cannot agree on meeting somewhere in the middle.
If Boats were registered from a Mould & It needed Approval then it has been recognised. Simple Logic...
Imagine the Uproar if somebody tried to claim the Mould isn't recognised but the Boats got Registered...
That would split teh class immeasurably.
Where the ARYA have over many years provided for such approvals & Registrations or otherwise then perhaps that is the documentation that should be sought.
My feelisngs are regardless of personal opinions that the written word & documentation would trump anything that is spoken. Simply put it has the weight of evidence.
I am always suspicious when support to words is not available.
My feelings still remian that a proper Lines Plan of the Boat would be Far Better for increasing the numbers in the Class.
The Preamble is what got the class where it is.. Based on a Mould & not the actual Lines of the Design as it should be..
-- Edited by waboats on Sunday 22nd of January 2012 09:26:05 PM
My apologies, of course it is Rob Rixon, I have spoken to him on a number of occasions I'm embarrassed to say and should know better. I think this whole ordeal must be getting to me now that I am starting to get names wrong!
You are indeed incorrect John about the mould they are using. It is indeed a flop of a Lakesedge boat as I understand and the original mould is where I said it resides.
There is only one mould currently enjoying the priviledge of accreditation as I understand it and that is the Gillies mould. Only that mould is sanctioned along with the original applicant also being an accreditted builder. All the other moulds in whatever condition are as far as I am aware now owned by people who are not accreditted builders or sanctioned to build underr the current ARYA regieme.
I know this as I had to go through the processs of applying to ARYA to build 12's and it was necessary to have the blessing of ARYA in respect of the mould that would be used in addition to them formally approving of me as a sanctioned builder. They never completed processing the application however.
As far as the veracity of this mould or that mould is concerned, I think that it is an exercise in frustration as the class has been suffering from a lack of freely available quality boats for years and all this yap about moulds is an exercise in futility and at best an attempt to draw red herrings accross the path IMHO and the sooner that our brand spanking new quality mould goes into production, the better it will be for the whole class. The sooner we come to the end of all this talk about continuing to track down all the clapped out old production construction moulds the better.
Straw
-- Edited by Straw on Sunday 22nd of January 2012 10:02:28 AM
Could it be an idea to get signed & witnessed correspondence from all known Owners of Moulds & maybe have them provide for a currency of the Mould.
If the current Owner/Authorised Builder is unprepared to refurbish the Older Mould & then decommissions it (Under written advice to ARYA) then I see no issue with whether it is current or not.
Simply put the Owner of the Mould has decided the Fate of their property & providing a greater knowledge of what is & Is not available.
Mould Re-Certification every 3-5 Years or 50 Hulls (whichever comes first) A Thought..
-- Edited by waboats on Friday 20th of January 2012 07:17:51 PM
Just a note of clarification Don regarding the Gillies mould. Originally when Ian built that mould, he went through all the ARYA vetting procedures in order to get accreditation at that time. That was many years ago now and a number of Ian's boats have been produced which has caused some deterioration of the mould which Ian told me now requires some minor refurbishment in order to go back into production.
Unfortunately with the parlous state of the class in recent years and the absolute basket cae state that it has descended into, Ian was not prepared to go to any further time or trouble to this end and it was simpler just to retire the mould.
Lets hope AUS end on the same page sooner rather than later to simplify the class and enable a move towards gainging true international status by all having the same mould shape.
I agree. Let's hope it's sooner rather than later!
But Chris, there may be some light at the end of the tunnel! Keep your fingers crossed!
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Maverick Model Yachting - The Only Way To Go! Secret Alias - Don Leitis
What a history! But your comments have shed a lot of light on the subject, particularly to me.
And what this does go to show, and confirm, that the AEC12OA's decision to import a sound mould, (never know how to spell that - Australian Oxford Dictionary indicates that both Mold and Mould are accepted spelling) ...lol, from the USA, has been absolutely the right decision. Hallelujah!!!
What a clean start for the future!
But I must confess that I am surprised that the ARYA gave the Gilles mould accreditation, when it was not suitable for producing new hulls. Moulds take many years to become 'unsuitable'. An independent mind must boggle at this situation!
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Maverick Model Yachting - The Only Way To Go! Secret Alias - Don Leitis
Hello all, I have only just learned that this site was back in operation. Thanks Don for providing the facility.
As regards the mould issue let me make clear for the record once again (as I have spoken of this matter many times previously) the current situation as i understand it to be.
1) I have applied to ARYA a number of times for an official ARYA confirmation as to what mould and what builder/s are accredited by that body for production of EC12 in this country. This matter is central to the end of allowing and sanctioning the new US standard mould (this is the correct way that this mould should be regarded). To date my request has been ignored and I am beginning to suspect that even they do not know as their records may in fact have degenerated into a "dog's breakfast" by now!
2) Don you are correct about the Gillies mould here in QLD. I too believe that Ian Gilmour's mould is the only remaining official mould and accredited builder remaining . You must understand that under the current regieme and Australian rules, ARYA is the official custodian of the class and have vested in them the ability to control these matters (regardless of what we individuals may think about that situation as a contemplation)! I know there are a number of sailors about who have strong feelings about the desirability of that situation which I also share. It is not a healthy state of affairs IMHO and I long for change and see the EC12 class unshackled from the current situation.
3) For the record let me inform everyone as to my understanding of from where all EC12's have sprung in Australia. Also that we have an undertaking from ARYA that no new EC12's manufactured in Australia by any means will be recognized orregistered pending resolution of the current AEC12OA submission.
a) Sorenson mould. I personally tracked down this mould and found it in a shipping container on a farm at a place outside Gympie QLD called "The Dawn". This mould is no longer viable and incapable of producing boats and was returned to the owner in Gympie.
b) Ian Gilmour's "Gillies" mould. I have spoken to Ian who informs me that his mould is no longer viable for producing boats and requires a complete refurb which he is not prepared to undertake. Ian was a major financial contributor to the fund that was put together by the OA in order to purchase the new USA standard mould which resides unpacked here with me as we speak.
c) "Lakesedge" mould owned I believe by a Mr Humphries in NSW. Know nothing about the current status of that mould or its accreditation or otherwise.
d) Don Rixon and Col Durran have a mould down Duross way that is a flop of a Lakesedge boat and I suspect this mould is not official.
e) And finally the Mini Mariner mould/s that are no longer with us as I believe and may be further compromised as I understand in that there may have been 2 sets of working moulds that were subtely different from each other and the local mythology has it that the halves may have been mixed up at some point. There is some credence to this suspicion as I own the last hull that was produced by the ECSA club when it owned a set of those moulds and when I had the boat finished off professionally, the guy who did it for me swore that the two halves of the hull were different and he had a devil of a time fairing that boat up so that it matched both sides and that did not include having to split the stem to make her measure correctly. So if that is any example of the standard out of the MM mould then I can safely say we are unlikely to have them see the light of day again
So that, as best as I know, is the sad state of the EC12 boat building situation as of January 2012 and unless anyone can shed additional light on the subject it would seem that we are collectively crying out for this new set of American standard moulds to go into production ASAP.
Straw.
-- Edited by Straw on Thursday 19th of January 2012 10:15:14 PM
-- Edited by Straw on Friday 20th of January 2012 07:56:48 AM
You know, I believe The NZ'ers were using the same moulds as the USA folks, when the ARYA released their EC12 Rules and Regulations, yet the ARYA decided to go with the Gillies molds.
Kinda makes one wonder, doesn't it?
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Maverick Model Yachting - The Only Way To Go! Secret Alias - Don Leitis
NZ and US are one and the same shape now and have been for a couple of years. We also previosuly adopted the 95 standard hull as well so have been the same for quite a few years.
Lets hope AUS end on the same page sooner rather than later to simplify the class and enable a move towards gainging true international status by all having the same mould shape.
-- Edited by ec12nz on Thursday 19th of January 2012 05:45:27 AM
Not sure I agree with it all, but that is what I have managed to gleam as the Motivation behind everything..
"One Design"
Simple enough..
But the passage of Time & History suggests the Horse has Bolted & now it needs another horse in the paddock.
The AEC12OA could always buy up all the Old Moulds or maybe pay a Royalty to acquire the rights of Ownership, even if the Older Mould is considered faulty by some..
, once the basics have been established!
